Curse

Mimi Miyagi · Jun 28, 2005, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Healing Breeze has a number of problems with it. It can't handle major spike damage. It doesn't respond very fast to mobs. It doesn't last very long, and it's certainly not a spell you can "fire and forget". It's a nice spell you can cast on someone if they run off after getting hit hard, but a single word of healing or other quick shot heal can repair faster, cheaper, and more efficiently. If the player is in trouble, the better spell is healing seed - it's a true "fire and foreget spell" (unless it get's stripped, like any other enchantment or spell), and if your healing is that high, you're healing them 25 HP every time they get hit. If it's massive spike damage that does armor penetration (such as lightning strike, chain lightning, etc), it will at least reduce and slow down that character from dying while you wait for your heaing spells to go off. Healing Breeze can't provide that kind of protection. Finally, Healing Breeze only effects that one character, while healing seed will provide healing for EVERYONE around the seeded player.

People dismiss healing seed simply because it's "energy expensive" but Healing Seed can provide the MOST healing of any single skill of any class, over the life it it's duration. One healing seed can keep any character class alive even surrounded by the largest minotaur or hydra mobs.

Let's say a warrior aggros a group of a dozen minotaurs and gets surrounded. Each minotaur, hitting for 15-20 points of damage, after factoring in armor, etc. A dozen minotaurs all hitting a character with healing breeze will kill him in less than 1 second. The sheer amount of damage all done in a short amount of time will overwhelm a healing breeze spell because the healing is linear.

But the healing seeded warior will actually GAIN health, as the actual damage each minotaur does doesn't surmount the healing a high level seed can do - and the healing actually occurs with each hit, not over time. In fact, the warrior WANTS to be hit, to restore his health. Even in a conservative estimate of a 5 health gain from each hit (25 seed health minus the 20 damage inflicted = five health gain), that means the warrior actually gained sixty points of healing in one second (five healing times the dozen hits from the minotaurs each second). The healing seed lasts for up to 18-19 seconds. That's potentially a conservative healing boon of 1,140 HPs, for the cost of one 15 energy spell. Not that the warrior would ever see that much, as his health will never go down past 100% once the seed restores his HPs to full.

In addition, healing seed is very much the fire and forget spell. It's only major drawbacks are that healing seed can't counter "conditional" HP loss like bleeding or poison - it requires actual attacks to trigger. THEN a healing breeze would be useful to counteract the effect - or any other skill that would remove the ailment (mend ailment, obviously). Another drawback is that seed recharges in 25 seconds, leaving a potential gap of 6 or so seconds between the first and second seed - by a single monk. Two monks (or, let's say, one monk/me with arcane echo) can keep a warrior seeded indefintely - and pretty much invincible. Or a simple 5 energy spell or two can bridge the gap in an emergency.

Healing Breeze is the conditional spell, not seed. Every monk should carry seed with them at all times.

Red Locust · Jun 28, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50

I don't think anyone dismisses healing seed, it's much more useful than healing breeze (which is probably less efficient than 2 orisons from a divine healing monk). Certain tactics can make healing seed very effective.

Tutompop · Jun 28, 2005, 09:15 PM // 21:15

I agree that healing seed is a better healing spell when the target is actually getting hit. However, your example of 12 minotaurs on one warrior is a bit far fetched unless you happen to be farming them. Something more plausable would be smite crawlers. Be that as it may, unless your group is playing a certain way, aggro will inevitably stray from the warrior and fast. In which case you are set up for a specific task which would make seed the situational spell used to compensate for the spike damage you have set your group up for.

Now if we're talking air elementalists neither seed or breeze are going to cover this damage by themselves. In this case you need spirit on the target as well as some form of healing but lets not forget if air elementalists see no damage being done they will undoubtedly switch targets and seed will not. The recharge is simply too slow. As for the added effect of healing everybody around the target? God yes its true that it is a huge advantage when you get it to work right. However, in the case of the warrior your allies aren't going to be close to the warrior or 12 hypothetical mobs will not be all on the warrior. Recently, i saw how evil the "healing ball" tactic worked provided the prot monk was alive. This is HIGHLY situational in the extreme and takes a moderate amount of coordination, certainly not the fire and forget spell it's been made out to be.

Breeze has a much quicker recast time, and allows you to watch another more important target while knowing the guy taking low damage is good to go for at least 10 seconds. In the case where he is taking more damage than healing breeze can recover, he is probably your priority heal anyway or a silly caster who somehow managed to step on a few toes too many which isn't really the spells fault is it? If you need to cover two people taking spike damage then seed could be useful but that is more of a recipe for disaster and your group needs to figure out why two targets are taking huge amounts of damage and fix it. One monk alone cannot keep that kind of healing up for long. Breeze does not in fact have the possibilities of healing seed but it is far more versatile in its use due to cost/recharge.

By the way I don't bother with either of them unless our group is set up to make use of it. I'd prefer another small healing spell to spam with channeling running.

Silmor · Jun 28, 2005, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Where does this 'seed vs. breeze' discussion originate from in the first place? They're quite different skills, one is conditional, the other is direct. Therefore both have their applications and optimal use, figuring out when which is better isn't that hard. No one skill is always better than another, so I don't see the point of this debate.

TheMarvin · Jun 28, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Breeze is -great- for self heals for a secondary Monk - it's far less useful for a primary monk with high Divine Favor; as was intimated by another poster.

Big Fat Duck · Jun 28, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

healing seed is a staple for all PvE monks

Ollj · Jun 29, 2005, 12:00 AM // 00:00

hmm. last time i checked there have been more than 2 monk spells.
I must have missed a MAYOR monk nerf

Weezer_Blue · Jun 29, 2005, 12:42 AM // 00:42

I usually carry both. Healing Breeze is a good spell to reverse those annoying builds that use massive health degeneration until you get a chance to remove it, and it's also something you can throw on someone and, if they aren't taking any further damage, leave. Healing Seed is awesome for certain tactics in PvP which involve many casts of it, and then bunching into a sort of ball, or just for the general purposes of reversing small amounts of damage.

bobrath · Jun 29, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Healing Breeze is nice to cast on yourself if you just used an infuse health to save someone else... You're in the back and safe from basic attacks but being at half health is scary. So, drop a quick breeze and get back to healing your party up.

Breeze on someone in the midst of a melee battle is not its ideal situation, its a gradual but powerful heal. Someone that was just rezed can benefit from a healing breeze as well. If I'm doing post battle mop up where half the party got beat down to 0... then rez/breeze is a fast way to get everyone up and full health fast.

Mimi Miyagi · Jun 29, 2005, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Where does this 'seed vs. breeze' discussion originate from in the first place? They're quite different skills, one is conditional, the other is direct. Therefore both have their applications and optimal use, figuring out when which is better isn't that hard. No one skill is always better than another, so I don't see the point of this debate.

Yes, they are both different spells - but I *constantly* see folks on the forums, and in game, dismiss healing seed, and prefer healing breeze as your "heal over time" spell. Every time I join some random PUG as any class other than a monk, without fail the monk in question doesn't have healing seed equiped - a lot of them don't even HAVE healing seed. They fell in love with breeze when they picked it up early in the game, and don't understand how much the dynamics of damage changes as the game goes on - especially once you get around the ascension/desert areas where you can buy healing seed.

As far as a seed "ball" set up for PVP, it's not that difficult to set up if you know how various spells interact with each other, and can withstand massive amounts of damage - I've literally stood on the altar in a PvP game, with two teams blasting our group in a seed ball with everything they had, and our entire team was never in any danger of dropping below 75% health.

Of course, a seed ball can be countered, I've also seen a team die in .5 seconds against a team that knew how to counter it.

I just started this thread to make a case for monks to equip and use seed more. Like I said, it's a rare thing to run into a monk (outside of my guild) that even equips the spell, much less uses it.

smitty-gw · Jun 29, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

This is a silly thread.

taion · Jun 29, 2005, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Healing seed is the heal over time spell for use on people getting focused, in cases where hardcasting enough heals to keep the guy alive would be extremely difficult. It's a very common healing monk skill in PvP.

Healing breeze is just for laziness and mana efficiency so you can ignore someone who's taking minor damage for a bit, especially if the char is at relatively high health and casting a direct heal would cause overhealing.

They're not at all comparable, and I'd far sooner drop breeze than seed.

Mimi Miyagi · Jun 29, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty-gw

This is a silly thread.

Thanks for the contribution, Einstein.

smitty-gw · Jun 29, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

Thanks for the contribution, Einstein.

It's a silly thread because you are comparing two very different skills and are prefacing it as if you must choose one or the other.

Silly. You don't need to be Einstein to see that.

Better luck with your next thread.

No exit · Jun 29, 2005, 07:33 PM // 19:33

agree on smitty-gw

Every skill in your inventory should have a good funtion in your build where you will prefer it above other skills. I don't know what the "breeze vs seed" thing is all about, both have situations where they might work and where they will fail and neither spell should be "inferior" to the other one, just the way they were meant to be!

krustydclown · Jun 29, 2005, 09:41 PM // 21:41

well, i like using breeze in gvg, anyone know if seed is effective? never used seed before in pvp.